Episode 86: Alanna McGinn
Building Your Sleep Routine with Certified Sleep Expert Alanna McGinn
This week Samantha chats with Alanna McGinn (@gnsleepsite ), founder and Certified Sleep Consultant (Good Night Sleep Site) from Toronto. She serves on the faculty of The Family Sleep Institute and is the host of the podcast This Girl Loves Sleep. Alanna strives to help families (babies to adults) and corporations to overcome their sleep challenges and have happy well-rested smiles in the morning.
The two discuss tips to get your best sleep and answer questions around sleep from Sam's audience.
This podcast is in partnership with Webber Naturals, proudly Canadian vitamins and supplements company that has been manufacturing safe, pure, and natural products made with a commitment to sustainability since 1948.
To learn more about Good Night Sleep Site HERE
To learn more about Webber Naturals HERE
To connect with Samantha click HERE
To connect with Alanna click HERE
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Podcast Script
Sam: [00:00:00] Monetize your passion for wellbeing. The job you love every single day and design a happy life from a healthy lifestyle. What's up guys. This is thin skin and other addictions, a podcast by me, Samantha E Cutler of The Fit Fatale. Each week. I'm going to take you deeper into the world of wellness with entrepreneurs who are building brands designed to better your life.
[00:00:26] So you'll be hearing from fitness gurus, medical specialists and influencers in the world of fitness, health, beauty, and nutrition. I hope you guys love it. Let's get down.
Alanna: [00:00:43] To keep that sleep switch on in your brain. We really have to allow our mind the tone into flow, or this is our natural sleep hormone. This is what kind of helps drive our circadian rhythms. What's helps us get into that deeper state of sleep. Focusing a lot on our environment. Making sure we're not staring at those really [00:01:00] bright screens close to our faces right before we go to sleep, making sure, really darkening up the room.
[00:01:04] Our melatonin is a natural sleep hormone that is released in our brain that is largely released or suppressed by our external environment. So our external environment, the main factor being the light in the dark of the day. This is why our drive for sleep is a lot stronger at night than it is throughout the day.
Sam: [00:01:20] You're listening to spin, skin and other addictions episode number 86 this week, we are talking about one of the most important major pillars to our health. And you may think it's fitness or nutrition, but there's that third other piece that is so important. Sleep. So my guest this week on the show is Alanna again, who is a founder and certified sleep consultant of Good Night Sleep Site.
[00:01:48] She is also a renowned member of the community within Toronto, going around and talking about how important it is to get our sleep and how unique that is. You may have heard of [00:02:00] her from national publications, like McLean's, Prevention magazine, Today's Parent, Huffington post, just to name a few, but she's also done so much work with families working to figure out how their patterns can adjust when their kids change different ages and what that looks like.
[00:02:16] But what's really fun is we asked my audience a whole bunch of their sleep questions. And a lot of that community is that 25 to 35. So they may have young kids, or they might not have any kids. They might be at home alone or with their partners. So a lot of these questions were. Super variant and people's habits, and we really dove into them together.
[00:02:35] So I'm excited to talk with Alanna and share this episode with you all. There's so many different. Tips and habit building routines that you can take away from the episode and hopefully something that will help you. I, for one, know that if I don't get my sleep, I am literally the biggest grumpy witch, like, I know I need eight to nine hours a night.
[00:02:57] If I don't get it, it is [00:03:00] the worst day. Possible. And I start thinking if I'm not asleep by a certain hour, I stress myself out, which of course just makes it worse. So Alanna has a lot of different tips that we can integrate into our routines. And I also share some of my favorites from all of you guys in my community that love sleep.
[00:03:17] And what are the things that work for you? So I hope you loved this episode. This episode is brought to you in partnership with Webber Naturals a proudly Canadian vitamin and supplement company that has been manufacturing, safe, and pure natural products made with the commitment to sustainability since 1948.
[00:03:36] What's crazy about this story with Webber Naturals is that I am such a big believer in the power of manifestation saying things, believing things, and really just putting things out there into the universe and stuff unfolding. So I was actually having a lot of trouble. Sleeping the past few months, actually, due to stress due to a lot of different factors of us being at home, work habits, staying up a lot later [00:04:00] than I previously was working.
[00:04:01] And so Trevor and I had actually just gone out and bought melatonin from Webber Naturals. Yeah. And lo and behold, probably about a week later, they reached out to do a podcast around sleep, to better educate our communities around what works for them, what their options are and how to just really get that conversation going.
[00:04:20] And it's just too funny how those things aligned because I knew it was. So perfect to work with them on this podcast because I, myself selfishly, had tons of questions around sleep, of course, because I was facing all sorts of different issues and I was just excited to bring so much information around sleep habits to you.
[00:04:37] So without further ado, let's welcome. Alanna on the show. I can't wait to dive into this episode and hear it. So much about sleep and you know what, if you guys are listening to this right now, maybe take some notes, maybe get cozy, get comfortable, get relaxed, and just think about the environment you want to be in.
[00:04:54] When you're getting ready to go to bed and sleep. Hey, [00:05:00] everyone. Welcome to another episode of spin, skin and other addictions. I am so excited for this week's topic where we're going to be diving into sleep. I am a big fan of sleep. Probably most of our listeners are. It's like the foundation for me for feeling good. If I don't get sleep, I'm totally thrown off. So today's guest is none other than Alanna McGinn, who is the founder and certified sleep consultant of Good Night Sleep Site. I am excited because we're going to be diving into all the best practices of sleeping what things that we can take that can help us, our routine, all that kind of good stuff.
[00:05:38] Alanna. Welcome to the show. I'm so excited to have you.
Alanna: [00:05:41] Thanks so much for having me. I'm excited to be here.
Sam: [00:05:44] I'm so thrilled for today's topic, as I just mentioned, because sleep is a big question of so many people. So I want to first just get started by you sharing a little bit about your background and how you became a sleep expert, sleep [00:06:00] therapist.
[00:06:00] What exactly is that? What is your title and how did you decide? Okay. My life goal is to help people sleep.
Alanna: [00:06:05] What, if you would have told me this say 20 years ago, I would have thought, why would I be trying to teach people how to sleep better? Because I didn't have kids then. So sleep came easy for the most part, I was also younger.
[00:06:16]When I had my first daughter, yeah. As I'm sure many of your listeners who are new parents can relate to, you realize that sleep doesn't come that easily. So at that time, my industry being a sleep consultant was relatively new. And certifications were relatively new as well.
[00:06:31] So I became certified when I was pregnant with my twins, my second and third and started Good Night Sleep Site shortly after they were born. I remember hitting publish on my website. I think they were 10 months old staring at me and their bouncy seats and started primarily with babies and toddlers and kids.
[00:06:45]And then within a few years started hearing from more adults and more seniors even tweens and teens, who weren't sleeping while our kids sleep great, but we're not sleeping well. So it was at that point where I shifted my education. Am I training to adult sleep. So we still obviously work [00:07:00] very much with families of younger kids.
[00:07:02]But we also now have an adult division. I do a lot of corporate lunch-and-learns and corporate talks. I do a lot of media on adult sleep. I've been trained in cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia. Yeah. It's something that I, again, if you would've asked me this years ago, I would've said no way, but it's something that I love to do.
[00:07:19]And I love to help people sleep better. So here I am.
Sam: [00:07:22] And it seems like you were naturally stumbles into this direction because it was something that affected you, which I hear from a lot of wellness experts that I get the chance to interview and speak with, who specialize in their specific industry because it affected them and they want to figure out how to one solve it.
[00:07:39] But also, I know if this is helping me, it's going to help so many other people. And of course, Sleep is something we all need. It's universal. And so it must just feel so rewarding on a day to day, to know that you are helping people with something that is so necessary, so common and really a big foundation of a lot of their health.
Alanna: [00:07:58] Yeah. It is something. [00:08:00] So I have a team of over 20 consultants throughout Canada and the U.S. And something that we always talk about it's such a satisfying job, to be honest, do you start with a family and then to work with them to the end and to see. See the difference of their life in terms of health, just overall wellbeing, mental health, everything.
[00:08:19]It, it really is such a that's really the only way I can explain it. It really is such a wonderfully satisfying job. It is it's something that I really truly enjoy doing so.
Sam: [00:08:29] Amazing. I didn't want to just keep this episode for myself. Of course we share all of our episodes, but I knew there was so much more valued answering a lot of the questions within my community in particular.
[00:08:39] So before we actually did this episode for any of our listeners who didn't get a chance to see that I did polls on my Instagram and I asked my audience what they wanted to know about sleep. So just a little bit of background we're about one week into the shift from daylight savings in and where we sprung forward.
[00:08:58] So we have a whole [00:09:00] shift in our change and Alanna you'll be able to speak to this completely, and really with the actual background and how that affects us from a scientific approach with our bodies, but everyone's been feeling really off. And so I'm been excited to do this podcast because I had the chance to ask my audience.
[00:09:14] And over 90% of them said they felt connected. Lately affected and thrown off on their sleep schedules the past week because of daylight savings. So I think this is a very timely episode and a lot of people are also not aware of what they can do for their own sleep routines. Some people, have different things that are working for them, some people don't.
[00:09:33] So I want it to really make this audience driven when it came to the question. So I have a bunch of questions to ask you today. Okay. All of which came from my audience, came from my community, really wanting to know more about their personal sleep. And I'm sure I'll have a bunch of my own as we go through this, but I'd love to go through some of these questions and get a feel of how we can help people on a larger scale.
[00:09:54] Get a better night's sleep.
Alanna: [00:09:56] Love it let's go for it.
Sam: [00:09:58] Amazing. Okay. So one of the questions and I actually got this, I'm going to start with this one because I got it from a few people. It was really about on a larger scale when we're sleeping, how can we get into a deeper sleep if you're a light sleeper, or if you have tendencies to wake up in the night?
Alanna: [00:10:17] Okay. So something I think that's important to understand is so throughout the night we have about five to six cycles of sleep for adults. And throughout each cycle, we transitioned through different stages of sleep. So in the first four to four and a half hours of. We have longer periods of deeper sleep.
[00:10:37]As the night goes on, we tend to kind of cycle into later stages of sleep. This is why that 3m waking that 4:00 AM waking tends to stick in our brain a bit more because we tend to wake up a lot. Cause we do wake up as we. Cycle into the next cycle. But we do to wake up a little bit more at that time in the morning, think of your brain as having a sleep switch.
[00:10:57] So an on and off switch in order [00:11:00] to get proper restorative deep sleep. It's not just about the quantity. Often we hear about you need to get this many hours of sleep, but I always say, we hear the 7-8hours, six, seven, eight hours of sleep. I would prefer someone to get a good five or six quality sleep rather than just junk, a longer period of sleep type thing. So to keep that sleep switch on in your brain, we really have to allow our melatonin to flow, or this is our natural sleep hormone. This is what kind of helps drive our circadian rhythms. What's helps us get into that deeper state of sleep.
[00:11:35]Focusing a lot on our environment. Making sure we're not staring at those really bright screens close to our faces right before we go to sleep. Making sure, really darkening up the room. Our melatonin is a natural sleep hormone that is released in our brain that is largely released or suppressed by our external environment.
[00:11:52] So our external environment, the main factor being the light and the dark of the day. This is why our drive for sleep is a lot stronger at night than it is throughout the day. So really. [00:12:00] Darkening up the environment as best you can. And just practicing some of the steps of just proper sleep hygiene, focusing on sleep environment.
[00:12:07] Cave-like settings, start quiet and cool making sure you're following consistency patterns. So 80% of the time, I always talk about that 80/ 20 rule. So yeah. 80% of the time, really trying to have that consistent bedtime, even have that consistent wait time, base your bedtime off your wait time, but also make sure that you're going to bed when you actually feel tired, not just when you think that you should be going to bed.
[00:12:32] So we all have that 9:30, 10 o'clock bedtime in our brain because that's just what we think of bedtime should be. But you might actually do better with a bit of a late, this isn't me giving you permission to go to bed at two o'clock in the morning, but, pushing it back a little bit, maybe 10:30 , 11:00, 11:30 would possibly be okay if it meant falling asleep a lot easier and then sleeping through the night a lot better.
[00:12:54]Going through, I'm sure we'll touch on a lot of different stages and steps of sleep hygiene in our talk. But I [00:13:00] think the most important thing is making sure you're really protecting your sleep environment, protecting your sleep patterns and schedule, and not just focusing on the amount of sleep you're getting, but also the quality of sleep you're getting, which these things will allow you to do.
Sam: [00:13:15] That's so interesting. Another question that we did get was around how long and how much sleep should we be getting for a healthy routine. And what's really interesting is some people and I'll speak for myself. I tend to need a lot more sleep. Does that mean that I'm probably not getting good sleep of what I am getting?
Alanna: [00:13:33] Everyone has their own personal baseline of sleep. So they have their own basic sleep needs. I might function fine on six to seven hours, whereas perhaps you need more eight to nine hours. So it's different for every person. If you are someone though that is. You feel like you're following all the rules, you're getting your consistent 7-8 hours of sleep per night, but you're still feeling really tired throughout the day.
[00:13:58] Waking up very [00:14:00] fatigued feeling a lot of daytime sleepiness. There could be something else going on. So perhaps you're not getting the right again, quality of sleep. You could be sleeping, but staying in that kind of junk sleep state. Or is there a further issue, like sleep disorder as far as, maybe been something like sleep apnea or could there be a nutritional imbalance?
[00:14:18]There could be other reasons why you're feeling tired. But everyone has different amounts of sleep that they should be getting. It's not across the board everyone should be getting seven to eight hours.
Sam: [00:14:27] Okay, good. Cause I typically feel like I, I think that my sleep is good. We don't know, you forget everything that happens, like even your dreams and a lot of the occurrences I wake up sometimes in the night and my partner tells me, and I have no recollection, right?
[00:14:40] Like I'll talk to him. And so I'm a scared that the sleep that I am getting is not good because I do require a long amount of, or a higher number of hours of sleep. But what, during the day I do feel energized. So that would lead you to believe that is good sleep.
[00:14:55]Absolutely.
[00:14:56] Good to know. I feel a little bit better. And something else that's really [00:15:00] interesting is you were mentioning melatonin. So can you tell us a little bit about this? I know a lot of our community had questions around taking melatonin or what is melatonin. Exactly. And you mentioned it. Sleep hormone that our body produces naturally.
[00:15:14] So then why do we take it and how does that impact us in our day, or let's say in life now in North America, because obviously there's so many factors that affect how we produce it.
Alanna: [00:15:23] So melatonin, as I mentioned, this is our natural sleep hormone. It is largely dictated off of our external environment and it helps drive our natural sleep rhythm.
[00:15:32] So it helps drive our natural 24 hour clock, which doesn't shift. You mentioned the time change at the start of the podcast, just because the clocks change, it doesn't mean our 24 hour clock changes that stays the same. So melatonin, in my opinion, can be very useful for individuals who are perhaps going traveling a lot.
[00:15:52] So we're talking jet lag going through different time zones. Individuals who perhaps suffer from disorders like circadian rhythm disorders, where their [00:16:00] natural clock doesn't drive the same as others. It's rare for you to be deficient in melatonin though. I really prefer for looking for a supplement to take, I really prefer magnesium.
[00:16:11] I think that's a great supplement to take as well. So I think melatonin can play a role in those again, who are suffering from jet lag, who are going through any kind of time zone change, who does need to get back on track and or suffering from any kind of disorder, like circadian rhythm disorder.
Sam: [00:16:27] I also, I'm so curious around magnesium as well. We see so much information going on through social media in particular, around taking magnesium. It helps us stress less, it helps us sleep better. I'm curious from your perspective, Alanna, as the expert in this field, how does magnesium actually work in our bodies and how does that help us sleep better?
Alanna: [00:16:47] So magnesium is a supplement that I take myself is one that I do normally recommend for individuals to include in their daily supplements. And the reason why that is, is actually Health Canada stated that 43% of Canadians are [00:17:00] deficient in magnesium. So it is a great supplement to include in your nightly routine.
[00:17:05]And studies have shown that it's aids in relaxing the body, lowering the heart rates, calming the mind, reducing stress and anxiety, and actually studies have shown that it actually can help an individual sleep better and get more solid.
Sam: [00:17:18] Would that be something that someone takes before sleep or is it just part of their normal supplements each day?
[00:17:24] And then as sleep comes in general their baseline is a little bit better to fall into sleep.
[Alanna: [00:17:29] So both are done. I know some individuals that take it at night. So as part of their nightly supplements, if they take nighttime supplements, I actually include mine in my morning. Cause I won't remember to take supplements twice a day.
[00:17:41] So I just included in my morning a batch of vitamins that I take. But again, that's a conversation to have with either a naturopath or your doctor on what is the right amount. And the right time to take it. But it is a supplement that I recommend individuals look into, especially if they're struggling with sleep, especially for struggling with stress and anxiety.
[00:17:58]It's a great one to [00:18:00] include in their daily vitamins and daily supplements.
Sam: [00:18:02] Amazing. Thank you. And I think that's, for most of us who struggle with stress and anxiety, myself included, that is what keeps us up. So it's definitely a lot of value to have something that can hopefully, knit both of those things and make our sleep and our stress routines a little bit better.
[00:18:18]Stress is one of the biggest things that wakes us up in the night. I know when I'm having a stressful week or my partner, we continuously will wake up, like with something on our mind. How does that play into how our bodies naturally producing? I guess melatonin or staying asleep?
Alanna: [00:18:34] Stress is, it's a big, it's a huge factor right now, and I'm seeing such a rise in it and sleep issues, just dealing with what we're going through now with COVID in the pandemic.
[00:18:42]Stress is at an all-time high and it's really affecting people differently. Quieting the mind is probably the biggest complaint or question that I get asked is how do we quiet the mind to allow us to sleep better? It's you either have that constant to-do list going on in your brain.
[00:18:56] Or just, you're remembering something from 10 years ago, that's still playing a role in your head. That's not allowing you to sleep.
Sam: [00:19:01] And they only come up. They only come up at 4:00 AM, always
Alanna: [00:19:06] because what happens is we're so busy during the day. And listen, I'm a mom of three, I run my own business.
[00:19:11] I always say, I have a husband that I have to pay attention to every now and then as well. Like I'm not going to start. Talking about, balance and don't stress and don't worry, cause that's life, it's going to happen. So I think it's really important that you find a calming activity that works for you.
[00:19:27] And whether that be through mindful thought, mindful breathing, whether that just be simply going outside and getting a walk, getting outside. And I can't stress the importance of physical activity during the day. And just getting in at least 30 minutes of vigorous activity. Not only is it just good for your overall wellbeing, but it helps build a drive for sleep. And really that is our goal from the moment we wake up in the morning is building that strong drive for sleep throughout the day so that we're able to fall asleep a lot easier at night. So physical activity definitely plays a role. So choose an activity that allows you to reduce [00:20:00] that stress.
[00:20:00]But we are so distracted throughout the day that we push our stress and our anxiety and our worry down. And then the moment we lie down in bed, the distractions are gone and that's okay when our brains explode. Finding, I explain it as finding your personal pause throughout the day.
[00:20:18] It just a minute or two, and allowing yourself, it sounds funny to say, but allow yourself to stress out, allow yourself to work through what you need to work through. During the day so that you're not forced to do it at four o'clock in the morning, because you've already worked it through.
[00:20:32] So it could be something as simple as writing out a, to do list or, allowing those anxious and those stressful thoughts to flow in and flow out. Don't let them ruminate in your brain, but work through them during the day during your personal pause. It's not something that you're constantly thinking about when you, then you lay down to go to sleep and the distractions are gone.
Sam: [00:20:51] I've also heard people mentioned, like keeping a pen and paper next to them or jotting down some of your thoughts. So it's like removing it, write down papers and we [00:21:00] burn them, we send them off. It's like that symbolism of it. And if we can just write it down and remove it almost from our brain and put it next to us.
[00:21:06] How do you feel like that impacts people or does that work? Is that just a myth?
Alanna: [00:21:10] Yeah. It's giving your brain that dump, right? So that it's not sitting in your brain throughout the night. Again, it could be something just as simple as that to do list, I talk a lot about journaling and I don't mean journaling in terms of diaries and writing out your feelings and stuff, just again, allowing yourself just to work through what you need to work through.
[00:21:28] So it could be a business idea. It could be just a problem that maybe you're having at work at home in your social life. Your kids are having at school, like whatever's going on in your life. There's something to be said also about pen to paper, rather than typing it out on your phone .
[00:21:42] Just allowing yourself to jot it down. That idea that comes to mind that you want to remember tomorrow that you're not going to remember tomorrow. So you think about it all night long, put it down on paper so that, it's down, it's safe and secure. You can clear it out of your head and then focus on getting a good night of sleep.
Sam: [00:21:57] I think that's a great one for me. That's something [00:22:00] that's helped. Absolutely. Is just writing your thoughts out and processing and just like spacing yourself from work. We're at home working right now and I think that's one of the hardest things for so many aspects. I feel that I've spoken about this on so many different podcasts, whether it comes to nutrition or, sleep or, couples, et cetera, and how that impacts our life, but we don't have a space to separate from work. A lot of people are in smaller condos potentially, and they're working where they're sleeping and that's really tough too. How do you feel about bringing, personal work or your phone or your computer, any of this stuff into the bedroom?
[00:22:36] Is that like an, okay. It's 2021 we do what we gotta do or is that a no-no taboo tuck your phone away, put it elsewhere.
Alanna: [00:22:44] I would say given the past year of everything we've gone through, I would say stress and anxiety. What we just spoke about is a big topic that I'm always speaking on and the other one is sleep environment for exactly what you're mentioning.
[00:22:55]I've been working from home for years. But it took me a few years to create my [00:23:00] boundaries and set my routines around work. And I still struggle with that and it's been years. So a lot of us were forced into that with this pandemic and it's suddenly, okay, you're working from home, figure it out.
[00:23:10] And it, there again, forced to do it. So in terms of your sleep environment, it's really important that we protect our environment to build a really strong association between sleep and your bed. Really, our bedrooms should be for sleep and sex only, but what's happening now is our bedrooms are becoming our home office, our entertainment theater, our kids' classrooms, our escape from our family, everybody. We're doing everything in our bedrooms, but sleeping. And we're spending a lot of money, awake time in bed, and we really should only be sleeping 85% of the time that we are in bed. So I understand that some families might not have a choice. You might have to work in your bedroom.
[00:23:49] As you mentioned, you might live in a one bedroom condo where that's just how it works out. So my recommendation would be to clear the clutter before you go to bed. So if you have to work in your room, that's okay. But clear away your computer. Yeah. [00:24:00] Clear way your work files or, with your kids.
[00:24:02] Their classroom assignments and their books so that you're not staring at it before you go to bed. So it's, again, those thoughts are in at the top of your brain, because it's what you're looking at in terms of tech. This is obviously a big topic that I talk a lot about the old Alanna really spoke about removing it.
[00:24:18] And I think if you are an individual who really struggles with sleep, who perhaps has long-term chronic insomnia. Okay. It is probably a good idea to remove it completely from the bedroom. Give yourself a tech curve you have about 60 minutes, have a docking station outside your home or your bedroom, where you can plug in, keep it all organized, even going as far as removing the television.
[00:24:38] But I also understand the benefits of those evening hours and wanting to maybe connect with the friend. Once the kids go down to sleep or, watching something light and fluffy on TV that just lowers that stress and makes you feel good. Again, this isn't me giving permission to binge an entire season till two o'clock in the morning, set boundaries on the tech that you allow in before going to bed.
[00:24:58]Again, if you want to catch up [00:25:00] with your friend, that makes you feel good. Great. If you want to follow social media accounts, that don't make you feel awful and don't give you that FOMO, do it stay away from the ones that do you know, maybe don't watch news right before you go to bed. News is scary right now.
[00:25:13] Don't watch the latest serial killer Netflix episode. If you're more sensitive to that, so set the boundaries, but allowing what you, what makes you feel good? What lowers the stress levels, but if you're really struggling with sleep, it's always the better idea to get rid of it completely.
Sam: [00:25:28] It's so interesting. As you're saying this, I'm laughing because there's so many depending on the shows and stuff, they'll keep me up. So I'm definitely one of those people whose affected by what I watch. But if I watched like Friends or Gilmore girls or something before bed, like no problems.
[00:25:45] Yeah. The guilty pleasures. But we have gotten in the habit actually of tucking our phones away in our office at night. And it's like the best choice I did hear from a lot of people. Cause I'll dive into that a little bit later, but I was asking again within my community, [00:26:00] what have they tried and what works for them to get to sleep.
[00:26:03] And so many people said, the second I switched from my phone or social media and put it away. That's when I started getting better asleep and really it does bring up a lot of stress. Whether that's the news or like you said, that FOMO or comparison game, or just always looking and mindlessly scroll, and also look, people are posting things from three days ago that you're seeing now.
[00:26:24]And so it's not time, like Instagram's not time sensitive as well, if that's where you're looking within a social media. And so they're showing you things from earlier in the day and you're like, Oh, they're posting about their work, but they're not posting that now at 11:00 PM. And you're seeing it now at 11:00 PM.
[00:26:36] And so it's this game with your mind where you have to space yourself, but yeah, that's the biggest difference. So let's talk a little bit about, cause I got a lot of questions about waking up, right? And we dove into a little bit about how can people get into a deeper sleep? What does that mean for them?
[00:26:52] But let's say it's 4:00 AM. I'm awake now. Now what.
Alanna: [00:26:55] So this is actually a form of CBTI. So cognitive behavioral therapy for [00:27:00] insomnia, and it's a therapy called stimulus control. So if you are, if you either have trouble falling asleep, initially when you go to bed or you're waking up at that three, 4:00 AM Mark and you're tossing, you're turning right.
[00:27:13] Again, we don't want to be spending too much time awake in our bed because that's when we're weakening that association between bed and sleep. So the best thing you can actually do is get out of bed. And I know that's hard to do a three or four o'clock in the morning. Nobody wants to get out of bed, but the best thing you can do is actually get out of bed, leave your bedroom and do a quiet and calming activity.
[00:27:32] Again, until you feel tired enough to fall asleep. So don't, don't turn on every light don't look at your phone, like right up close to your face. You want to stay away from any up-close, bright screens. If you want to read in dim lighting. That's great. If even if you want to watch TV provided, it's typically dim lighting and the TV's far enough away.
[00:27:48] Watch an episode of a show until you start to feel tired enough and then go back to bed. You might have to yo-yo that you might have to get up again. Again, if you get back into bed, it's taking you longer than 10 or 15 minutes, and you're tossing, [00:28:00] you're turning and you're clock watching, which we're all guilty of doing that's when you get into bed and do it again, and you might have to do that a few times throughout the night.
[00:28:07] It might take a few nights, but what you're doing by doing that is you're again, strengthening that association between bed and sleep. It will be easier than to fall asleep. Once you get into bed. And you're weakening the associations that become those sleep busters, like the tossing and turning then grabbing the phone and all of those things and spending too much awake time while you're in bed.
[00:28:27] So it's called stimulus control. It's getting out of bed until you're tired enough to fall asleep and try it again.
Sam: [00:28:34] Interesting. That's because we tend to just think, okay, just stay here. Like just stay in the bed. I'm going to get tired again. I'm going to fall asleep. Whereas I would immediately think if I get out of bed and I started doing something else I'm away.
Alanna: [00:28:45] But that's when you keep things like dimly lit, right? You don't start the day and turn on every light and all those things. But what happens also is when we're in bed and we're tossing and turning. If you're already feeling stress and anxiety, now it's going to be amplified because now [00:29:00] again, you start clock watching, you start doing the countdown, you start stressing out about how you're going to feel terrible the next day, because you're not sleeping.
[00:29:06] You're starting to stress out about not sleeping. It's like that vicious circle. So the best thing you can do is get out of bed. Set up the, if you're, if it's happening a lot, the best thing you can do is actually set up the activity center before you go to sleep. So if it's a puzzle, it's a word search.
[00:29:19] If it's a book set up your little nook so that you get into bed, go straight there, do it for a little bit, 15 minutes, 30 minutes, and then try again.
Sam: [00:29:28] So interesting. Yeah. Like just spacing yourself and almost distracting yourself a little bit. Cause if you're thinking too much about sleep, then it doesn't come right.
Alanna: [00:29:37] That's right. Yeah. I love that.
Sam: [00:29:39] And what about blue light as well? Because obviously if we're watching, I always thought, it's better for me to watch a show. Let's say I can't sleep, or I'm trying to fall asleep on my computer because I can turn on blue light versus the TV, because it's just like the same light throughout the day.
[00:29:54] How does that affect us?
Alanna: [00:29:56] So that's going back to when I was mentioning about sleep switch, right? [00:30:00] So what happens with that blue light or any really any form of bright light is it keeps that sweet sleep switch on. So a lot of people will say I fall asleep, great to the TV, or I fall asleep great after my phone you're sleeping, but the sleep switch is off. I should say, actually not on the seat switch is off. So your body, even though you're sleeping your body and brain is still thinking that it's awake. So it's not allowing you to, again, to get that deep restorative sleep. Now we're getting that junk sleep light sleep, which we want to avoid, especially in that, that first half of the night.
[00:30:28]So I would just recommend staying away from any bright up-close screens. I mean in my house, tech is a big no-no in all bedrooms. We don't have any tech. My daughter just recently started with the phone. We started that role with her from day one. So I personally think there is an importance removing all tech completely right before you go to bed.
[00:30:45]That being said, I'm also a mom of three. I understand those evening hours. Once kids go to bed, I always feel terrible telling parents to like, not get caught up with friends and not, cause that's just like those hours are gold and I can appreciate that. So just again, set boundaries on what you're [00:31:00] watching set boundaries on the devices that you're using and monitor yourself.
[00:31:04] Everybody is different. So what works for you might not work for you. Not might not work for the next person and just watch set boundaries on that.
Sam: [00:31:12] It's funny as you say that with your daughter where you're spacing her from her phone right away. I wish I had those habits in place as a teen because I come from the generation.
[00:31:20]Those of us in our early thirties grew up with a cell phone in school, in high school, like we were glued to our phones for our whole life, but it was the first time. Era of that really? And I went to bed with my phone, like in high school, I went to bed with my phone. I would text my friends until 11, 1130 until I fell asleep, which is terrible, but no one knew any better because we were given phones.
[00:31:41] And that was like the norm before we realized, okay, there wasn't really social media was more texting. Then we began to integrate it more and people realize, okay, we need to space from it. It is causing these different things. They also were different, the screen. I actually do believe on my Nokia flip phone, there is a difference in the screen quality than my [00:32:00] iPhone now.
[00:32:00] So for sure, I'm sure it impacted us very differently.
Alanna: [00:32:03] It is. In my opinion, tech is probably the number one sleep Buster, for sure. Because we'll, listen, we're always connected. During the day at night, we are always on something. So yeah, with my daughter was really important. I She's only 13.
[00:32:16] It was really important for me to set those boundaries and the earlier you set them, the easier they. They go along with it. So obviously sleep is obviously a big topic in our house too. So she understands the importance of it all. But yeah, that was just something that. Yeah, we'll do with our youngest as well.
Sam: [00:32:31] Totally. I think that's a great pattern to have and they'll definitely be so thankful for it in the future. I'm sure when they have good nights sleeps and they don't have to face that demon later on. So let's talk a little bit about. How nutrition and eating habits play into our sleep.
[00:32:48] I had one question from my audience and they were asking about what do we do if we want to wake up every day? Sorry. If we wake up hungry or wanting to snack in the night. And I'm also [00:33:00] curious to tag on to that question. How close to bedtime does eating impact our sleep. And how does that come into play?
[00:33:07] We always hear like dinner shouldn't be too late, or we shouldn't go to bed like on a full stomach, but also it can't be too empty. Cause then we wake up hungry. Where does that come into play with our natural routine.
Alanna: [00:33:18] So when we're thinking about, again, coming back to getting that deep sleep, we want our body while we're sleeping our body and mind only to focus on sleep.
[00:33:27] So when we're going to bed with a really full tummy, or if we're getting up in the middle of the night and having a snack. A it's causing that disruptive sleep, which can be hard to get into a natural state of a natural cycle of state of sleep afterwards. But what's happening is our body is busy, too busy trying to digest the food.
[00:33:43] And it's not necessarily focusing on. Eating well, or you're on super well and getting that, that deep sleep. So my recommendation is always avoid any big meals, at least four hours before going to sleep. So that your body has time to digest and metabolize the food before you're going to bed so that it can really just [00:34:00] focus on sleeping well.
[00:34:01]In terms of, bedtime snacks, a light bedtime snack is okay because, but you're right. We also don't want to be waking up starving, but then also we might have to be monitoring how we're eating throughout the day. If you are constantly waking up hungry, is there something that you could be changing throughout the day that.
[00:34:17] We'll prevent that from happening. But you can have a smaller light, a lighter snack, again, focus on, clean food, staying away from processed, stay away from caffeine, for sure. Sweets and sugars and things like that. But for the most part, we want to be avoiding really heavy meals.
[00:34:32]A lot of people will say it's the weekends where I really don't sleep as well. And really cause the weekends, we tend to let loose a little bit, that's where we tend to have a couple more drinks. We tend to have maybe larger meals we're entertaining more. And those nights we never sleep as well that we do during the week.
[00:34:46] So yeah. That tells us something. So again, we want our body to be focusing on sleep, not digesting food, not regulating temperature, all of these things distracts our body from it, getting good quality sleep.
Sam: [00:34:57] Sleep. Yeah, that's a really good one. I never knew for [00:35:00] hours. I always have like a.
[00:35:01]A number in mind of okay, we eat dinner around like seven, sometimes it's eight as the sun's up later, it becomes later naturally. But then I think I need to get to bed by 10. But if you think about that's not enough time. So that's really interesting to have more of like a timeframe to just give your body that opportunity to fully digest so that when you are sleeping, you're sleeping. But yeah, then you don't want to wake up. I'm also a big lover of like tea before bed or something else that kind of fills you up in a way that you're not waking up hungry or you're not feeling like that sort of like initial once you've digested that sort of gnarl in your stomach so that you can have something that's peaceful and just brings you into sleep, but it doesn't leave you feeling like empty, yeah.
Alanna: [00:35:40] That's common. Yeah. Bedtime routine is great.
Sam: [00:35:43] Yeah. Big fan of that. Yeah. So you mentioned something as well, and we've had tons of questions and we need to dive into it. Caffeine coffee. How does that affect us? We all know it keeps us up, but what is that magic number timeframe that we should stop drinking coffee to make sure that we have [00:36:00] our optimal sleep patterns.
Alanna: [00:36:01] This is very dependent on the individual. I know a lot of people and I'm so jealous of these people who can drink a cup of coffee after dinner and sleep great. Like in a stressed, some people. Yeah. I'm just, I've never been that person. And most people aren't, Be honest, caffeine. It depends really how sensitive you are to caffeine.
[00:36:19] If you know that you are super sensitive to caffeine and many shapes and forms, right? Not just a cup of coffee, it could be chocolate, it could be hot chocolate, but like whatever your pop however you ingest it. If you are really sensitive to it, I actually give a cutoff limit of noon. So try not to have any into the early afternoon, into the evening, especially with our kids too, who are more sensitive to caffeine.
[00:36:42] So it depends. Some people can have it and there they sleep fine and they go to bed fine. They actually need it to fall asleep. Some people, it really affects them. So if you are that person where caffeine really affects it again, this is where you have to customize your caffeine intake and set boundaries on the caffeine that you bring in to your own [00:37:00] personal needs.
[00:37:00] And if it's going to keep you up at night, for me, I can't have, I normally have a cup in the morning. If I do have one in the afternoon, I can't have any caffeine later than 2:00 PM. If I do. My night's over. So it really depends on the person. Some people may have to go as early as noon.
Sam: [00:37:14] Just a little disclaimer, I'm drinking coffee while we're on this podcast and it's two 40, but it's decaf.
Alanna: [00:37:21] That's okay. There you go. Okay. Yeah!
Sam: [00:37:24] I actually try to opt for decaf unless than feeling really tired or really needing it. I'd rather have a tea, but if I'm going to drink coffee, I do actually find decaf makes me like, allows me to have much better sleep. Even if it's early morning.
Alanna: [00:37:37] If there's that comfort too, is that, that, that comfort of a warm cup of coffee which that's why I'm so jealous of people who ha, because I just can't do decaf. I can't, I'd rather do a tea, I can't do decaf. So I'm jealous, I have a girlfriend of mine who like will just have a cup at night. I'm just like, Oh, How do you do that and still sleep, but everyone's different.
Sam:[00:37:57] I'm going to just say back in the days, when we used to actually [00:38:00] go out and do things and stay up, I would always get excited knowing that okay, we have a late dinner reservation or we're on vacation in Europe, and you're having dinner so late or something. And I was like I can have my coffee late because I'm staying up tonight.
[00:38:12] I know you need it to stay up. Yeah.
[00:38:15] You need it. Exactly. And then yeah. As time goes on you need it even more so with all the other factors affecting you. Exactly. So let's talk alcohol, then I want to switch that gear and know a little bit more about how that affects. I think most people know that it does affect our sleep, but also how much cause sometimes the glass of red wine like helps you doze off, but then does that wake you up later? And how much? I assume the answer is, again, this is super individual for each person, but we know that it affects us. So tell us a little bit more about what you know, around alcohol and what we can myth bust here.
Alanna: [00:38:48] Yeah. Yes, initially. Alcohol can help you fall asleep. Great. So that one glass of wine, that two glass of wine a drink, a beer it might help you fall asleep. But what actually happens is as the [00:39:00] alcohol leaves your body, while you're sleeping, it's it can cause disrupted sleep.
[00:39:04]So again, it can cause disruption in the natural flow and transition of each cycle. So as we get further on into the night, we're getting more REM. This is more mentally restorative sleep. So as alcohol leaves our body, it can cause more destruction in REM sleep, which is, something that we don't want to disrupt and something that we really want.
[00:39:23] We want those longer periods of REM sleep to feel better in the morning when we don't have good, proper REM sleep. This is when you wake up feeling really groggy and foggy like it's called sleep inertia. It's almost like a sleep hangover, right? So I'm not an alcohol hangover, but a sleep hangover.
[00:39:37]Yeah, that glass of wine might help you fall asleep. Great. Depending on how much you're drinking or again, how sensitive you are to that glass of wine it could cause more disruptions in sleep throughout the night, which is what we want to avoid doing. So again like food, I normally recommend.
[00:39:50] At least four hours before going to bed to not drink. I also understand the joys of that glass of wine at night with dinner. I get it. So again, it's very [00:40:00] individual. It's how it affects you. If you know it affects your sleep. I would avoid it. I know for me, if I have more than one glass on the weekend when, we tend to, I'm not going to have a great night of sleep, so I really try to limit it to that one glass of wine.
Sam: [00:40:12] It depends on the person. Yeah. And I think a lot of this is probably just helping our listeners get to know their own habits and what does work or interrupt their natural sleep patterns. So I wonder, do you ever suggest, I'm sure you do, people take. Note of what works for them. Maybe keeping like a diary or a sleep diary saying, okay, tonight what happened in the four hours before bed?
[00:40:34] Like what did I eat? How did I drink? And what did, like, how was my sleep at the end of that? Is that something that our listeners could potentially look into doing?
Alanna: [00:40:43] For sure. You know what? I love that you brought that up because something that I'm talking a lot about now is really creating that sleep plan.
[00:40:49] And in that creation of that sleep plan. Exactly what you said, you have to know what works for you. So log your sleep for a week, two weeks, even better prior to starting any [00:41:00] kind of sleep plan that you put together, I think is really important because it's going to give you a better idea of what you're doing and how you're sleeping because of that.
[00:41:07]But I think what's really important too, to talk about is when you create that sleep plan, when we look at the three pillars of health, we have sleep, exercise and nutrition. And when we create a workout plan, We create a new meal planner, nutritional plan. We commit to it for the most part, we commit to it right.
[00:41:24] To see, we know that we need to commit to these plans in order to see progress. But with the sleep plan, we don't tend to put it in the same value. And we tend to think that we want to see results overnight because we all sleep. We may not get enough sleep. We might not get the right quality of sleep, but we all sleep.
[00:41:39] We know when we're not working out. We know when we're not eating well, but we sleep. So we don't, again. Put value in the importance of really committing to that plan. So for those listening, if you are going to pull any of, what we talked about to create a better sleep plan for you, you have to commit to that plan.
[00:41:55] A lot of what we talked about is simply changing habits, right? Changing lifestyle habits. [00:42:00] It takes 21 days to change a habit. So you can't expect to, turn off tech and sleep great that night, it can take time. So put the plan together and commit to the plan, the same way that you would commit to a workout plan or meal plan to see progression.
Sam: [00:42:15] Yeah. And that's why I was asking as well. Just how much people really knew why sleep is important, because we do know that it's important. We all know we need it. We got super sleepy. We're cranky the basics of it, but also how much are people aware today that it is a pillar of the foundations of their health.
[00:42:34] And considering it the same as our workouts, as our nutrition and really all three of those, I love how you said all three of those, working in tandem together to really get the optimal result and anyone listening I'm so game, if anyone wants to start, sleep diary club, because I want to be tracking that as well and just realize, what is affecting us?
[00:42:54] What are those things that are impacting? Cause we learn, okay. We went out, we drank too much. We didn't sleep well. That's an obvious [00:43:00] one, but how much was that? Like where is my barrier of, is one glass okay. Or is this meal okay. And just getting to know our own bodies better and our own habits.
Alanna: [00:43:11] I think sleep is, and I think, things like sleep trackers and Fitbits and Apple watches and things like that, play a role in people now starting to recognize that they need to sleep better and start to put more focus in their sleep, which I think is great. And that's a good thing.
[00:43:27]It's, people are starting to have those kinds of conversations of how did you sleep last night and how, what are you doing to sleep better? And I'm not sleeping so great. So there's, sir, I think sleep is, I would say in the past few years it's starting to gain the same kind of importance as nutrition and exercise, which is just great, which is a good thing.
Sam: [00:43:45] So we had a really interesting question, actually, that came in from someone who works night shift and they wanted to know how they can help. It flipped basically from day to night, if they are sometimes working that night shift, if you're a nurse, or if [00:44:00] you have a specific job that requires you to stay up late, how does that come into play?
[00:44:04] And how can you just teeter back and forth in that.
Alanna: [00:44:08] So this is, listen, this is top and our shift community is definitely a growing community for sure. And I talked to a lot of shift workers at largest shift working shift work companies. Like I mentioned before, we all have a 24 hour biological clock and that clock doesn't shift dependent on what time we go to bed, depending on the hours we work, depending on time changes or anything like that, it stays in that 24 hour period.
[00:44:31] So when you're working, when you're sleeping against your clock, which unfortunately is the case with shift workers it's hard to get that restorative sleep, but it's not, it's still important. It's not to say that they're not getting restorative sleep, but it's also still important to really put value in the sleep you're getting and really protect the sleep that you can get at whatever hour you can get it.
[00:44:51]A lot of the steps that we encourage the shift work community to do is really, again, setting up a great sleep environment. Sleep environment is really important because most of the time, yeah. [00:45:00] They're sleeping when the sun's out, they're sleeping when the rest of the world is awake. So really making sure that they are focusing on a darker sleep environment, a quiet sleep environment, even going as far as darkening up the route from work to home.
[00:45:15] So if you have to wear, the big sun blocking glasses darkening up the entryways to get in. So just to start getting that melatonin flowing even before you, you get into bed, I think is really important. The issue that happens with shift workers is they have a disruption in their daytime sleep because their melatonin levels are lower.
[00:45:33] Our melatonin levels are lower throughout the day. So typically what happens is a few hours before we go to bed, our melatonin levels rise and they stay high throughout the night. And then slowly suppress and come down in the early mornings and stay pretty low throughout the day. So this is why shift workers struggle because they're typically sleeping throughout the day when their melatonin levels are a lot lower, which really can cause a [00:46:00] disrupted sleep.
[00:46:00] So melatonin supplement can be great cause this can help reset their internal clock which is already set to a normal, day and night schedule and routine, and it can help reset their clock. So therefore they can get better, less disruptive sleep throughout the day. I think it's also really important to have conversations with those around you, about how it is important that you do protect your sleep.
[00:46:25] So going as far as having the conversations with families, Hey, listen, when mom or dad is sleeping, it's important that you guys are quiet or that you allow me to get the good sleep that I can get at the hours that I can get it. One thing that companies have really benefited from too, is putting together support groups, because for those who don't work in the shift work community. You might not understand, but it can actually be a very lonely a very lonely thing, because again, you're up when the rest of the world is sleeping and you're sleeping when the rest of the world is absent, you also lose a lot of connection, just, people, connection friends, family, that type of thing.
[00:47:00] [00:46:59] So I think it's important that companies put together support groups where shift workers can. Meet and discuss, Hey, this is what works for me. What works for you? They can talk about the issues they have with it. Again, they can discuss tips and things that have worked for them. And I think there's some importance of just talking to someone who's also going through it as well, because like I said, it can be a lonely experience for, especially if you live in a family or surrounded by friends who don't work in that kind of community.
Sam: [00:47:25] Yeah, I would imagine. As you said, it's the flip you're awake when the rest of the world is asleep and it does feel isolating. Yeah, I would imagine anything that you're doing, that's completely different than what you view as the rest of your world or your community doing is isolating.
[00:47:39] So I would imagine that's very tough. And a lot of the times those are our first responders and, our, the people that we're counting on. And so that's, that's very tough. That question actually did come from someone who's a nurse actually. So it's really important that they are getting the sleep.
Alanna: [00:47:52] For sure. Yeah, absolutely.
Sam: [00:47:55] I really love this conversation. I want to quickly just go over a few of the favorite things [00:48:00] I heard from my community. When I asked them what does help them get a good night's sleep and we've gone over so many of these. But I would love to play a game with you actually, Alanna, where we can do like this or that. You think you'd be up for it?
Alanna: [00:48:11] Yeah.
Sam: [00:48:11] Yeah. Okay, cool. So it's which one would you pick over the other one? And we'll go through some of the list of what we heard. Okay. So the first one is going to be earplugs or eye mask.
Alanna: [00:48:22] Earplugs. Earplugs. Yeah, really. Sound is worse than light. For me. Yeah. I need a quiet, I would obviously like a dark environment, but I need quiet, like pure.
Sam: [00:48:34] Okay, cool. Okay. How about putting our phones away or getting exercise in the day?
Alanna: [00:48:44] Getting exercise in the day. Okay.
Sam: [00:48:47] Yeah. Yeah. That's a good one. You got to tire yourself out. Yeah, for sure. Okay. What about being well fed , having not being hungry before you go to bed, let's say versus setting up your routine. When you go to bed, like when you actually arrive.
Alanna: [00:49:02] I need a good routine. I'm a routine girl. Yeah. I don't want to go to bed starving, but I don't think I'll ever go to bed starving, but yeah. I like my routines. Yeah. Cool.
Sam: [00:49:12] Okay. What about a bath or a book?
Alanna: [00:49:18] That's a hard one. I'd say book. I'm not a bath girl.
Sam: [00:49:25] Oh really? Yeah. Interesting. I'm such a bath before bed, to me is the best.
Alanna: [00:49:29] Maybe when I was younger, but now I'm like, ah, that takes too long book all the way.
Sam: [00:49:33] Yeah. All right. So this one's a personal one. What about giving up coffee or alcohol for a better night's sleep?
Alanna: [00:49:41] Alcohol. Okay. I need my coffee in the morning. Yeah. Like I actually look forward to it when I'm going to bed at night, knowing that I'm going to have it when I wake up in the morning.
Sam: [00:49:51] That's a good one. Okay. And then last one then I'm going to give you is either listening to music when you fall [00:50:00] asleep or blackout blinds.
Alanna: [00:50:04] Blackout blinds. I am just, I am that, and I know it works for a lot of people and I talked a little about tech and one thing I didn't talk about is there's a lot of tech that can help.
[00:50:12] So things like, my guided mindfulness, music, I can't have anything on though when I'm going to bed, like it needs to be quiet and dark. So blackout blinds.
Sam:[00:50:24] Cause one thing I got from so many people was listening to music or noise machine.
Alanna: [00:50:27] Yeah. It's so many people and I'm all for it. It's something I recommend a lot to others, but I also know that there is a few of us that just need the dead silence and I am that person.
Sam: [00:50:40] Yeah, I love it. Thank you so much for being here. Lastly, can you just share with our audience where they can find you if they want to get in touch or have any other further questions around sleep or their own personal habits, or maybe what's going on with their family?
Alanna: [00:50:54] For sure you guys can find me at my website is goodnightsleepsite.com. I am on Instagram [00:51:00] at @gnsleepsite. I also have a podcast called This Girl Loves Sleep and you can download it anywhere you download podcasts. Facebook, Good Night Sleep Site.
Sam: [00:51:09] Thank you so much for being here with me.
This was a pleasure. I'm so happy that we got to do this. I hope you all loved this week's episode, all about sleep. I want to say thank you again to Webber Naturals for sponsoring this podcast. They make both magnesium and melatonin, which are supplements that we discussed in the podcast. And you can find more about their products and their commitment to manufacturing, safe quality products that are natural, all at webbernaturals.com, which I will link here in the show notes. Have an amazing day, everyone. And please give us a rating, subscribe and follow along. If you've loved listening in .